Eating out

I will be going to Paris in July with my 18 year old daughter, any recommendations on eating out we will be staying on Rue de Vaugirard St Germain/Luxembourg and do not really want to venture too far at night.

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You will find an entire area of restaurants just up the street from your lodgings on the rue des Canettes, just oppostie St Sulpice.

You are staying in a very safe neighborhood and will have no problems venturing out on your own at night.

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Thanks for that info,..any others out there with any thing further to add would be appreciated. I have been Paris 1/2 dozen times but not in the past 8 years and I think because I am with my daughter on our own I really did not want to venture too far at night although from my experience if your careful like any capital and sensible all should be ok..laura.

Speaking badly pronounced/limited/broken French--will we be...

Hello-

My boyfriend and I are going to Paris at the end of May. We are both very excited about our trip. We both took 4 years of French in high school and can barely remember anything besides the usual: bonjour/soir, au revoir, si%26#39;vous plait, merci and etc. We do plan to use those phrases frequently and always conduct us in a respectful, courteous manner.

His brother recently told him (his brother went to France with his Algerian girlfriend 7-9 years ago) that when attempting to communicate with locals in France/Paris, we must pronounce everything just right and practially beg/grovel if we want a response, otherwise we%26#39;d either be laughed at or completely ignored. My boyfriend also heard something similar on a radio program.

Now, am I being naive to think that as long as I try and make an effort in French, even with my bad pronounciation, will be better than not trying at all? I know what his brother experienced may be an isolated incident and everyone is different but I am interested in hearing what the %26quot;experts%26quot; of TA have to say.

Merci beaucoup!

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I think when going to any country its polite to try to speak their language instead of assuming they speak your.

I spoke my broken french in Paris and was responded to in English. Same thing happened in Germany but to me, its better than rolling in somewhere and assuming they speak my langauge.

Just try it, you%26#39;ve got nothing to lose :)

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My experience (after 9 visits) is that you have a 99% chance of being appreciated for your efforts *, and a 1% chance of being scoffed at.

* %26#39;appreciated%26#39; doesn%26#39;t necessarily mean anyone will comment or compliment you outright, but it does mean your transactions will be more pleasant and rewarding

Story: our last trip we ate dinner at a caf�� in the area by our hotel in the 14th... my husband is hopeless at French - the waiter (who spoke English also) says %26quot;use French, say eet een French!%26quot; My husband places his order in horribly fractured French, then the waiter exclaims %26quot;your French ees teeerrible!%26quot; and we all laughed. He was quite playful and hollered out as we left, %26quot;a bientot!! that%26#39;s %26quot;see you later%26quot; !!%26quot;...

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Midrorigal,

May I suggest your local Pasadena Public Library, a search on their online catalogue produced a long list of books, cds, tapes etc. it would be a good place to refresh your high school French. You have two moths to pratice and it is free.

You are not being naive and you do have the good attitude in believing that as long as you are making an effort you will be fine. Do not worry so much you will be a tourist not negociating trade agreements between U.S. of America and France

As far as your brother%26#39;s boyfriend experience it is difficult to judge, since obviously I was not there, but it is beyond me that an Algerian women could not be understud in Paris! All the Algerians I have meet speak fluent French. May I also suggest that your boyfriend start listening to a different radio station, they obvious are not informing him well.

As French speakers we are raised to not only like our language but to adored her. One of the way French people judge their politicians is how great an intellectual he is, how many books has he written etc... and by the number of mistakes they might make in the national dictation, so culturally there is a large difference. That said we always appreciate when a non-native make an effort, so do not be afraid to used the French you know. Bon voyage.

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%26quot;One of the way French people judge their politicians is how great an intellectual he is, how many books has he written etc... and by the number of mistakes they might make in the national dictation%26quot;

Oh boy, are we in trouble here (tongue in cheek). But seriously, I have learned here in Miami when I was starting to use my high school Spanish 20 years ago, that attempting to use another%26#39;s language in order to communicate is very polite and always appreciated, no matter how much I butchered the language.

I have bought the Michel Thomas CD%26#39;s suggested by someone on this board, and they are excellent. I%26#39;m really learning the basics of communication, but my accent?.. tres tragique :(

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My experiences are like the ones travelnutty outlined above.

You do get credit for making the attempt and sometimes a playful waiter may, good-naturedly, comment on your dreadful french. I was at a brassiere on rue des ecoles, known for its colorful wait staff, and tried ordering in French. I must have really butchered it. The waiter shut his eyes, shook his head, and with completely exasperation said %26quot;WHAT?%26quot; I pointed to the item and on the menu and said, in English %26quot;how would YOU say it%26quot; He pronounced it. %26quot;Hey,%26quot; I laughed, %26quot;I was pretty close.%26quot; He laughed too and we had a very pleasant meal.

I%26#39;m trying to think about the percentages. I%26#39;ve toted up that we%26#39;ve spent 35 nights in 5 trips to Paris the last 3.5 years. I figure each day may consist of 40-60 human transactions: i.e. buying an apple from a grocer = 1 transaction; buying carnet of metro tickets=1 transaction; lunch might be several transactions: greeting, seating, ordering drinks, ordering food, ordering coffee, asking for the check, saying goodbye.

So all in all I%26#39;ve had 1500-2000 transactions in Paris and my %26quot;french%26quot; is as you say %26quot;bonjour/soir, au revoir, si%26#39;vous plait, merci etc%26quot; and some menu items. I%26#39;m hard pressed to recall 15-20 negative experiences. So the 1% figure is pretty accurate. A little effort, a little french, a little politeness, and a sense of humor is all you need.

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I have the worst time pronouncing %26quot;je voudrais%26quot;.....and I had about 10 years of french during grade school and high school and I still cannot pronounce this phrase without it sounding like I%26#39;m mangling the language!

Could someone please give me a phonetic pronunciation lesson??

Thanks!! 20 days and counting.....

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Bonjour Canuck,

Je voudrais bien mais sans un micro c%26#39;est difficile ! Try to read the following as a English speaker :

zher voo-dray it work perfectly for my English hubby. If you have the time come and practice at slowtalk.com

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Thanks Lucky! I think I was trying too hard to get that %26quot;rolling R%26quot; in there.....I guess I don%26#39;t have to worry about it!!

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Don%26#39;t let anyone discourage your from attempting to speak French in France.

Think about it like this. If someone comes up to you in San Fransisco and says %26quot;Me Loost, Ver eh Goden Gate Parks%26quot; you would instantly understand that this person is not fluent in English, is lost and is trying to get to the Golden Gate Park. You would be kind and try to direct them, speaking slowly, and using lots of hand motions. You would not be insulted that they butchered your language or rude to them--you wouldn%26#39;t walk away without trying your best too assist them.

The same person comes up to you and says. %26quot;Jeg taper. Hvor er Gyllen portPark?%26quot; You look at them with with a bit of blank stare and you don%26#39;t know what they are saying as you do not know any Norwegian. They say it louder and slower. You tell them you are sorry you cannot help them. They walk away wondering why were so rude as to not direct them to the Golden Gate park.

I found everyone, even people in remote villages in the south of France who spoke NO English to really appreciate our butchered attempts at speaking French. They did their best to figure out what we were saying and to be helpful to us.

Get some tapes and listen to them--you have time to brush up and at least practice the basic greetings. In Paris you will find many ( probably about 95%) speak quite a bit of English and many enjoy helping you speak french.

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Heading out for our fifth trip to Paris, and we have never been ridiculed by our small bit of French. Most everyone speaks English pretty fluently and if you just say the main things, greetings, thank you, goodbye, etc. they will reply in English and think nothing of it. Hope all of these postings ease your mind. We, too, are going back the end of May. If you want any info, I have some great notes of my own that I%26#39;d be glad to send you...

Email me at vickisfloyd@hotmail.com if you want them.

Have a great time...see you there!

Credit Card Foreign Exchange Rates

This seems to be an ongoing issue of discussion. Per today%26#39;s %26quot;Washington Post%26quot;:

All VISA cards are subject to a 1% surcharge for purchases in foreign currencies, regardless of the issuing bank. MasterCard and American Express are subject to a 2% surcharge.

The issuing banks may add an additional fee. Citibank has just increased its fee to 3% (plus the 1 or 2% from the credit card company).

CAPITAL ONE and MBNA do not charge an additional fee for foreign currency purchases.

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My last Bank of America VISA bill came with a note that theirs is increasing from 1% to 3%. I won%26#39;t be using THAT card!

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Thanks for that info, Truffaut.

Good to know!

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Truffaut,

Do you happen to have the link or website that article was on? I%26#39;ve been getting a lot of %26quot;change in terms%26quot; on my credit cards lately having to do with currency conversion and even foreign purchases in US dollars!

Thx!

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The following is excerpted from The Washington Post (3/13/05). I don%26#39;t want to violate any copyrights, but the only other way to view this column is to get a free Washington Post password.

COMINGANDGOING

Sunday, March 13, 2005; Page P01

WALLET WATCH

Playing Your Cards Right

Because he reads the small print on his credit card statements, Charles Weber of Alexandria noticed a %26quot;change in terms%26quot; alert on his latest Citibank MasterCard bill: %26quot;For each purchase made in a foreign currency, we add an additional finance charge of 3% of the amount of the purchase after its conversion into U.S. dollars.%26quot;

Weber, in addition to being angry, was curious. %26quot;How prevalent has this policy become?%26quot; he asked CoGo in an e-mail.

Increasingly prevalent. The nonprofit advocacy group Consumer Action last spring surveyed 45 companies that issue credit cards and found that 26 were adding currency conversion fees -- up from 17 the year before. What you need to know:

��� When converting overseas charges into dollars, Visa uses the wholesale exchange rate plus a 1 percent conversion fee. MasterCard and American Express add 2 percent.

��� The companies that issue Visa and MasterCard may add another fee, typically 1 to 3 percent. (American Express issues its own cards.)

��� Issuing companies that don%26#39;t add an extra fee: Capital One, MBNA and numerous smaller banks and credit unions.

��� Among issuing companies that do charge an extra fee: Bank of America, Citibank, Chase Manhattan and Wells Fargo.

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Was just reviewing my Capital One cardmember agreement and noticed that they, too, will be adding what they call a %26quot;finance charge%26quot; for foreign currency transactions. I called them and they were not able to tell me when this would take affect. They told me it would be a percentage of each transaction and that I would be notified that there had been a change in my agreement and the amount of the percentage, before I was charged. I hope that%26#39;s correct as I intended to use that card when I travel to Italy in 4 days! Hard to believe they don%26#39;t have any more information, though???

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There was an article in the Washington Post 3/27/05 that MBNA will begin charging a 3% foreign exchange rate surcharge. I called MNBA and they confirmed the charge will become effective 5/25/05.

If anyone has a credit card company that is not charging these fees, please post.

CN

PA

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CapitalOne does not charge the fee.

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Credit unions by and large also do not charge added fees. We just opened a savings account and new visa card with our local CU. Both cards have currency exchange fees of 1% (the standards Visa/MC chanrge) with no other per transaction or added rate surcharge. As a bonus, we can now travel with a set of %26quot;primary%26quot; cards and also bring our %26quot;regular%26quot; ATM and credit cards to be stashed with the passports for emergencies (like if the primaries are lost or damaged).

I also like the idea of using an ATM card linked to a %26quot;travel%26quot; account that we stock before departure with a limited amount of funds rather than to our main accounts through which a substantially larger portion of our assets are potentially reachable.

regarding snavaro's question & the American Identity

While visiting Paris in the winter I would have to say that my husband and I did a nice job of blending. When we greeted merchants I would always said Bonjour. They always replied in french. Was my accent that good?

However, I do know that I consistently did one thing that gave me away. I would smile if I made eye contact with strangers on the metro. I did not know this, but it is bad to smile at someone. Is there an explanation for this? And how bad is it? I smile at people all the time in the states. If I am going to return should practice the scowl? Also, is this the custom all over France or is a big city thing? When traveling with my 12 yr old son, should I advise him to frown at all costs.

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it is true that making eye contact and smiling at strangers is just not done here. I don%26#39;t know where it comes from but I do know that I learned this when I was a young college student, out on the metro alone for the first time and men would bother me or follow me home as if I had offered an invitation of some sort.

So if you aren%26#39;t a naive little college girl, I%26#39;d say that it is not so much bad, as not Parisian, and at the very worst people will think you are somewhat daft, but most will realize that you are an American.

My impression is that this is much more of a big city hting, but then I have only ever lived in a big city.

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Smiling at a stranger is not bad, it%26#39;s just that in the big cities it can be considered as an invitation to get to know each other better.. So to answer your question, it%26#39;s more a big city thing, and mainly a paris thing in fact.

No needs to frown, tho : )

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The %26quot;no smile and no eye contact%26quot; thing may just be a custom in any big city. Have you been on the NY subway lately? Nobody makes eye contact there. My sister tried once and almost got beat up...

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thanks for the replies. I have not travelled the U.S. I have only been to San Francisco and Los Angeles. I have no trouble there in fact I think people appreciate a smile since they don%26#39;t see a friendly face very often.

The remark that a smile may invoke an unintended invitation makes a lot of sense.

I will just keep smiling.

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I think it%26#39;s just a big city thing: I moved to NYC from Upstate NY 18 years ago. One thing you learn rather quickly here is that if you look at someone too long with or without a smile you%26#39;re either asking for a fight or to be hit on! When I went to Paris, people didn%26#39;t seem as inclined toward belligerence as here in NY, but the men did seem to take it as a flirtatious invitation.

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Although, its true that they don%26#39;t smile much. They do stare, especially the women. I found this to be really strange at first, until someone explained that they are curious about your attire or your hair, and it not uncommon for them to stare at one another or you for that matter.

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I am extremely insecure, and suffer slightly from body dysmorphic disorder, where you always feel ugly, lol. The staring part will be tough on me, but I am determined not to let it bother me.

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Great!

I%26#39;m going to look like the Pied Piper with strange men following me!!

I smile so much at people they are bound to think I am a lunatic!

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I read in the Fodor%26#39;s paris book if you do smile (if your a woman) and you smile at a male you%26#39;ll get a Pepe Le peux response. Which I thought was hilarious!!!!! So if you want attention ladies. Smile away.

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Gee, if it were that easy to lure French men, I%26#39;d be ear-to-ear smiling from the moment my plane touched ground!!

Seriously though, Parisians don%26#39;t smile much at each other for no reason and often people will take it as an expression of interest. Don%26#39;t let the staring get to you. I%26#39;ve never found it to be offensive. Keep in mind that French people seem to have a natural aversion to anything ugly, so they won%26#39;t be staring at you if they think you%26#39;re ugly:) Now, if nobody stares at you the entire time, you might be in trouble....! :)

H��tel Bellevue et du Chariot d'Or

Does anyone know what%26#39;s the easiest and cheapest method of getting to this hotel from the train station? the address is 39, rue Turbigo - 75003 PARIS- FRANCE

Thanks in advance!

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WHICH train station??

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I can%26#39;t answer your question, but I am thinking of booking a week there (at that hotel), and would love to hear how you found it. Merci

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sorry, i don%26#39;t know what train station. i will arrive from barcelona and plan on taking an over nite train to paris. Could I get guidance as to which train station to stop at?

Thank you.

ps what if last minute we decide to fly to paris? would that be easier?

thanks for the advice!

Best Place for Lunch near D'Orsay

Suggestions, please, on a memorable and good meal ( six in our party, all adults) at a bistro or restaurant near the Musee D%26#39;Orsay. Merci!

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When we were at the D%26#39;Orsay, we had an excellent lunch inside the museum. I don%26#39;t remember the name of the restaurant, as it was 5 years ago, but I believe it was upstairs from the entrance. The ambiance and food were both great.

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I%26#39;ve heard of the lunch at the D%26#39;Orsay as well. I think it%26#39;s a buffet, but I%26#39;m not certain.

Anyone else?? Is it worth eating at the D%26#39;Orsay?

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Two places to eat within the Musee. The first is a very popular (with the tourist crowd) restaurant in a historic and gorgeous Belle Epoque dining room. The atmosphere is light and sunny with large windows and lots of palms. The food is not exceptional, but traditional French and it is worth going once.

The second option is a cafe. I prefer this area, as I love sitting beneath the facade of the large clock that adorns the facade of the once train station, the food is much simpler (and cheaper) here and the environment a bit louder.

As for options outside of the museum, Cafe Mucha on the Blvd. St Germain is a nice place with an outdoor seating area and nice salads, but there are countless other good options nearby, too.

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Thanks for your ideas ~ we might just hop a cab and lunch afterwards at Joel Robouchon%26#39;s new place in the 7th........

lunch at the l%26#39;Orsey cafe or dining room is something I%26#39;ve done before, and it%26#39;s grand, and busy and the food is ok to good......but it%26#39;s more fun to dine at one of Paris%26#39; wonderful bistros, I think.

Is Paris unfriendly to Americans?

We have avoided France in the past because we were told that the French were especially unfriendly to non French speaking Americans. We were hoping to visit this summer and plan to carry a voice translator and learn some common French phrases. How will the reception compare to the overwhelming friendliness of the other European capitals.

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I think you will find the reception equally as warm. Just preface any conversation with a Binjour Madame/Monsieur, throw in a s%26#39;il vous plait here and there and end every request with a Merci, merci beaucoup and %26#39;au revoir%26quot; and you will do just fine. I don%26#39;t think you need a voice translator, as most French, (at least in the heavily touristed areas) speak English far better than we speak French.

The French love Americans. They just are not fans of American politics. They can distinguish between the two.

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I have not had any problems in France. I do try to speak some of the language, I am very polite and say %26quot;Bonjour%26quot; (hello) %26quot;merci%26quot; (thank you) %26quot;s%26#39;il vous plait%26quot; (please) etc. Pick up some tapes of French language - you can actually find some of them at the Half Price Bookstores and learn some French. I find that they really appreciate it.

I have found that the french are slightly %26quot;dressier%26quot; than in some of the other places, most notably in Paris (unless you plan on traveling to some of the more country places). Leave your lees, wranglers and walmart clothes at home! My husband wore his Levis throughout France and I did notice that he didn%26#39;t get as %26quot;nice%26quot; of service as I did!

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I think you have watched Fox News too much. This forum is full of messages that contradict that perception.

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I have found that Parisians are actually among the nicest people of Europe, provided that you use common sense and respect them and their culture. A simple Bonjour or Merci can often go a long way, as Parisians realize that you have an interest in respecting their language as well. I think that those who have complained in the past about Parisians and established the stereotype of rudeness are likely those people who go to Paris and stomp about acting as if the Parisians are the foreigners and assuming that everyone speaks English. I wonder how we would respond if Parisians considered us rude because, when they visit, we don%26#39;t reply graciously when they start spewing at us in French. There is no reason to avoid Paris, it%26#39;s the best city in the world, in my humble opinion.

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Great question, I wish more people would ask. I was in Paris the day the War in Iraq started and I was treated very well by the French. I did have people ask me for my opinion on the war and the French offered their opinions as well. To be very honest with you, the French are generally very nice and polite. If you attempt to only speak English you may come across a bit of resentment on the part of the French. Most French people will speak English with if you at least attempt to speak French first. There%26#39;s no need to learn copiuos amounts of French, but your trip will be much better if you learn the basics: please, thank you, excuse me, how much does this cost, etc. I speak French and my wife does not. When she approached people and only spoke English there were strange looks and even people who were less than helpful. However, as soon as she learned to say, %26quot;Pardon moi%26quot; instead of %26quot;exscuse me%26quot; people went out of their way to speak English. A very nice French cab driver explained it this way. %26quot;If I come to American and only speak French no one would talk to me, why should Americans come to France and make us speak a foreign language in our own country?%26quot; This pretty much sums up the attitudes I%26#39;ve encountered. Show the French that you at least repect their culture and they will treat you very well. Enjoy your trip, Paris is one of the most beautifull cities on the planet!!!

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%26gt;%26gt;%26gt;%26gt; Great question, I wish more people would ask. %26lt;%26lt;%26lt;%26lt;%26lt;

People ask this question all the time =O

But the answer is...... parisians are very friendly. Just make an effort to respect their language and culture by learning simple phrases and they are usually very nice and helpful.

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%26lt;%26lt;%26lt;%26lt;I have found that Parisians are actually among the nicest people of Europe%26gt;%26gt;%26gt;%26gt;

I think that I am living in the wrong Paris. People here are just like people in DC, NY and most other large cities. Well, maybe not LA, but that is really just a mega %26#39;burb. In any case we have our fair share of lovely, welcoming hosts and rude, obnoxious individuals.

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Phread un mot rebelote

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I tried to translate the last post to no avail...

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oh sorry Pimcneal I forgot one l it should read %26quot;rebellote%26quot; meaning in English something like %26quot;There we goes again%26quot;. Phread and I were having a similar discussion on the other %26quot;hot%26quot; post about Americans.